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The Journal.

The Journal. 杂志。

The most important stories, explained through the lens of business. A podcast about money, business and power. Hosted by Kate Linebaugh and Ryan Knutson, with Jessica Mendoza. The Journal is a co-production from Spotify and The Wall Street Journal.
从商业角度解释最重要的故事。关于金钱、商业和权力的播客。由凯特·莱恩博 (Kate Linebaugh) 和瑞安·克纳森 (Ryan Knutson) 以及杰西卡·门多萨 (Jessica Mendoza) 主持。 《华尔街日报》是 Spotify 和《华尔街日报》的联合制作。

FRIDAY, OCTOBER 18, 2024 2024 年 10 月 18 日星期五

10/18/2024 3:55:00 PM
10/18/2024 3:55:00 PM分享这一集

The Missing Minister, Episode 1: The Vanishing of Qin Gang
失踪大臣第一集:秦刚失踪

Last year, China’s foreign minister, Qin Gang, suddenly disappeared. Qin was a rising star in Chinese politics and a protegé of China’s strongman leader, Xi Jinping. In the first episode of our three-part investigation, we chart Qin’s rise and begin to untangle the mystery of his disappearance.
去年,中国外交部长秦刚突然失踪。秦是中国政坛一颗冉冉升起的新星,也是中国强人领导人习近平的得意门生。在我们由三部分组成的调查的第一集中,我们记录了秦的崛起并开始解开他失踪的谜团。

Full Transcript 完整成绩单

This transcript was prepared by a transcription service. This version may not be in its final form and may be updated.
这份文字记录是由转录服务机构准备的。该版本可能不是最终版本,并且可能会更新。

Kate Linebaugh: The last day that Qin Gang, China's then Foreign Minister was seen in public, was on June 25th of last year. It was a hot humid day in Beijing and according to his official schedule, Qin spent some of that day carrying out his foreign minister duties as usual. Mostly this meant meeting other foreign ministers
凯特·莱恩博:时任中国外交部长秦刚最后一次公开露面是在去年的6月25日。北京天气炎热潮湿,根据他的官方日程安排,秦军当天花了一些时间像往常一样履行外交部长职责。这主要意味着会见其他外交部长

Lingling Wei: We know from Qin Gang's official schedule that he met with Sri Lanka's foreign minister.
魏玲玲:从秦刚的官方日程来看,他会见了斯里兰卡外长。

Kate Linebaugh: That's Chief China Correspondent Lingling Wei. Chin, and the Sri Lankan Foreign Minister discussed China's Belt and Road Initiative. They shook hands and snapped a picture in front of their country's flags.
凯特·莱恩博:我是首席中国记者魏玲玲。钦与斯里兰卡外长讨论中国“一带一路”倡议。他们握手并在各自国家的国旗前合影留念。

Lingling Wei: We know he met with the Vietnamese Foreign Minister and that they talked about the Vietnamese Prime Minister's visit to China.
魏玲玲:我们知道他会见了越南外长,并谈到了越南总理访华的情况。

Kate Linebaugh: Another handshake, another picture in front of another set of flags.
凯特·莱恩博:另一次握手,另一组旗帜前的另一张照片。

Lingling Wei: And Qin Gang also met with a representative from Russia, one of China's key partners. Russia's Deputy Foreign Minister, Andrey Rudenko, was in town that day.
魏玲玲:秦刚还会见了来自中国重要合作伙伴之一俄罗斯的代表。俄罗斯外交部副部长安德烈·鲁登科当天也在城里。

Kate Linebaugh: A photo from the day shows Qin and Rudenko striding out of a building mid-conversation. Qin is tall with rimless glasses. He looks relaxed and confident. And he had reason to be. Qin was Foreign Minister, the country's top diplomat. He was a member of the upper echelon of the political elite. And he had the backing of China's powerful leader, Xi Jinping. Qin had risen high and was expected to keep rising. But instead, after that day in June, Qin disappeared.
凯特·莱恩博:当天的一张照片显示,秦和鲁登科在谈话中大步走出一栋大楼。秦身材高大,戴着无框眼镜。他看起来轻松又自信。他有理由这样做。秦是外交部长,国家最高外交官。他是政治精英的上层成员。他得到了中国强大领导人习近平的支持。秦国已经崛起,并且有望继续崛起。但相反,六月的那一天之后,秦就消失了。

Lingling Wei: All of a sudden, people realized they hadn't seen Qin Gang on TV, on state media reports, anywhere. He just vanished all of a sudden from public view. He even skipped some meetings, very important international meetings. So that basically triggered a lot of speculation, especially on social media about his whereabouts, what had happened to him?
魏玲玲:突然间,人们意识到他们在电视上、在官方媒体报道上、在任何地方都没有看到秦刚。他就这样突然从公众视野中消失了。他甚至缺席了一些会议,非常重要的国际会议。所以这基本上引发了很多猜测,尤其是在社交媒体上关于他的下落,他发生了什么?

Kate Linebaugh: Online people were asking, where is Qin Gang? Foreign journalists in Beijing began pressing China's foreign ministry for answers.
Kate Linebaugh:网上有人问,秦刚在哪里?北京的外国记者开始向中国外交部施压,寻求答案。

Rick Waters: Does the foreign ministry have any updates on Qin Gang and when he will return to duties?
沃特斯:请问外交部有关于秦刚的最新消息吗?他什么时候恢复职务?

Danny Russell: Is he the subject of a corruption probe?
丹尼·拉塞尔:他是腐败调查的对象吗?

Kate Linebaugh: The foreign ministry didn't provide any clear explanation. And now over a year after Qin Gang vanished, he still hasn't been seen in public. We asked the foreign ministry about Qin's, whereabouts and the circumstances of his disappearance. And they had no comment. When Qin Gang disappeared, do you remember what your reaction was?
凯特·莱恩博:外交部没有提供任何明确的解释。如今,秦刚失踪一年多了,他依然没有出现在公众面前。我们向外交部询问了秦先生的下落和失踪情况。他们没有发表评论。当秦刚消失的时候,你还记得你的反应是什么吗?

Lingling Wei: I was really shocked. This is a guy who was so trusted by Xi Jinping so close to him. What could he have done wrong? That was my biggest question. What heck did he do?
魏玲玲:我真的很震惊。这是一个被习近平如此信任、如此亲近的人。他可能做错了什么?这是我最大的问题。他到底做了什么?

Kate Linebaugh: Such a swift fall of a protégé of Xi Jinping? Lingling says it stood out as unusual. She couldn't explain it, so she started digging. Over the last year, she's spoken to dozens of people.
凯特·莱恩鲍(Kate Linebaugh):习近平的门生就这么迅速垮台了?玲玲说,这很不寻常。她无法解释,所以她开始挖掘。去年,她与数十人进行了交谈。

Lingling Wei: Hey guys, I'm about to go into a meeting...
魏玲玲:大家好,我要去开会了……

Kate Linebaugh: And she's been reporting back to us along the way.
Kate Linebaugh:她一直在向我们汇报。

Lingling Wei: I do think we're really on the right track here. And obviously the story is extremely sensitive and we want to exercise extreme caution to make sure we... I've been a reporter for the Journal for 16 years. This really has been the hardest nut to crack so far.
Lingling Wei:我确实认为我们确实走在正确的道路上。显然,这个故事极其敏感,我们要极其谨慎,以确保我们……我已经担任《华尔街日报》记者 16 年了。这确实是迄今为止最难解决的难题。

Kate Linebaugh: This story is about Qin Gang, a Chinese political star whose rise was abruptly cut short. But it's also a story about the man who elevated him in the first place, the man who has ruled China with an iron fist for over a decade, Xi Jinping. And what we've discovered gives us a peek behind the veil of one of the most opaque and powerful governments in the world. From the journal, I'm Kate Linebaugh, and this is The Missing Minister, a three-part investigation into the mysterious disappearance of China's Foreign Minister. Episode one, The Vanishing of Qin Gang. When Qin Gang vanished, he was at the peak of his power. At 57, he was one of China's youngest ever foreign ministers. But we talked to someone who knew him when he was still at the very bottom of the political ladder.
凯特·莱恩博:这个故事是关于秦刚的,一位中国政治明星,他的崛起突然被终止。但这也是一个关于最初提拔他、用铁拳统治中国十多年的人习近平的故事。我们的发现让我们得以一窥世界上最不透明、最强大的政府之一的面纱。我是杂志上的凯特·莱恩博,这是《失踪的部长》,由三部分组成,对中国外交部长神秘失踪事件进行调查。第一集,秦刚失踪。秦罡消失的时候,他正处于实力巅峰。 57岁的他是中国有史以来最年轻的外交部长之一。但我们采访了一位认识他的人,当时他还处于政治阶梯的最底层。

Sarah Lubman: What I remember about Qin Gang was, first of all, I remember him as tall, but I'm pretty short, so that's relative.
莎拉·卢布曼:我对秦刚的记忆是,首先,我记得他很高,但我很矮,所以这是相对的。

Kate Linebaugh: Sarah Lubman was a reporter in China back in the late '80s and early '90s. She worked at an American news agency called UPI, covering, among other things, the aftermath of the Tiananmen Square crackdown. It was at UPI that Sarah got to know the future Foreign Minister. Qin was in his 20s then, a low-level government worker assigned to UPI. His job was to help journalists like Sarah navigate China, to translate, book trips, and monitor Chinese news.
凯特·莱恩博(Kate Linebaugh):莎拉·卢布曼(Sarah Lubman)是上世纪 80 年代末和 90 年代初在中国的一名记者。她在一家名为合众国际社的美国通讯社工作,报道天安门广场镇压的后果等。正是在合众国际社,莎拉认识了未来的外交部长。秦当时20多岁,是UPI的一名低级政府工作人员。他的工作是帮助莎拉这样的记者了解中国、翻译、预订行程和监控中国新闻。

Sarah Lubman: I do remember him as a very lanky guy. I also remember him as arrogant, so he had, not a chip on his shoulder, but there was just something about his manner that suggested that this job was beneath him, which it may have been because his English was really good. He was clearly very smart. He was clearly very ambitious.
莎拉·卢布曼:我确实记得他是一个非常瘦长的人。我还记得他很傲慢,所以他并没有怨言,但他的态度表明他不适合这份工作,这可能是因为他的英语非常好。他显然非常聪明。他显然非常有野心。

Kate Linebaugh: Sarah and Qin worked together in a converted apartment in one of Beijing's diplomatic compounds.
凯特·莱恩博(Kate Linebaugh):莎拉和秦在北京一处外交大楼的一间改建的公寓里一起工作。

Sarah Lubman: It was a long railroad apartment, with two rooms next to each other. And Qin Gang would sit in one room and the correspondents were in the other room where all the computer monitors were. And when we wanted to watch the news, we would go into that next room.
莎拉·卢布曼:那是一套长长的铁路公寓,有两个房间相邻。秦刚坐在一个房间,记者坐在另一个房间,那里全是电脑显示器。当我们想看新闻时,我们会走进隔壁的房间。

Kate Linebaugh: But Sarah says translators like Qin weren't just there to be helpful. They were also there to keep an eye on UPI's journalists.
凯特·莱恩博:但是莎拉说像秦这样的翻译不仅仅是为了提供帮助。他们还在那里监视合众国际社的记者。

Sarah Lubman: We just assumed that they were reporting back on what we were doing.
莎拉·卢布曼:我们只是假设他们正在报告我们正在做的事情。

Kate Linebaugh: Really? 凯特·莱恩博:真的吗?

Sarah Lubman: Yeah, I mean that was just assumed. Then look, they were government assigned. And I'm sure that they were there to support us, but also to keep tabs on us, I have no doubt. The one concrete memory I have of working with him is of watching a newscast with him and a phrase came up that I didn't know. And so I turned to him to say, "Hey, can you tell me what they just said?" And he was tipped back in his chair. He was not leaning forward, intently listening to the news. He was tipped back in his chair like, "Yeah, I can't believe I need to do this." But when I turned to him and said, "Hey, what did they say?" He snapped to attention. He tipped his chair back forward and told me immediately what they'd said. So clearly even, when he was just half listening, he got the sense this was a job he could do in his sleep.
莎拉·卢布曼:是的,我的意思是这只是假设。然后看,他们是政府指派的。我确信他们会支持我们,也会密切关注我们,这一点我毫不怀疑。我与他一起工作的唯一具体记忆是和他一起看新闻广播,然后出现了一个我不知道的短语。于是我转向他说:“嘿,你能告诉我他们刚刚说什么吗?”他向后靠在椅子上。他没有向前倾身,专心地听着新闻。他向后靠在椅子上,好像在说:“是的,我不敢相信我需要这样做。”但当我转向他说:“嘿,他们说什么?”他猛地集中注意力。他把椅子向前倾斜,立即告诉我他们说了什么。很明显,当他只是半听着的时候,他就感觉到这是一项他可以在睡梦中完成的工作。

Kate Linebaugh: Sarah realized, even then, that Qin was operating below his potential, that given the chance, he could go far. She just didn't realize how far.
凯特·莱恩博:莎拉意识到,即使在那时,秦的表现还没有发挥出他的潜力,只要有机会,他就能走得更远。她只是不知道有多远。

Sarah Lubman: When he became Foreign Minister, a friend of mine who'd been a reporter in China called me and said, "Do you remember Qin Gang from the UPI Bureau?" And I said, "Yeah." And he said, "That's the Foreign Minister." And I was just flabbergasted that that same gangly, cocky kid was now Foreign Minister.
莎拉·卢布曼:当他担任外交部长时,我的一个在中国当记者的朋友打电话给我说:“你还记得合众国际社的秦刚吗?”我说:“是的。”他说:“那是外交部长。”令我大吃一惊的是,那个身材瘦长、傲慢的孩子现在成了外交部长。

Kate Linebaugh: There's an expectation about how you rise through the Chinese political ranks, and it's not generally a fast process. You're supposed to put in your time and move up rung by rung. That's how most of Qin's career at the foreign ministry went. He did various stints at the Chinese embassy in London, and he worked as a foreign ministry spokesperson in Beijing where he responded to reporters questions with scripted talking points. But then something happened that would put Qin on the fast track. He got a new job and a new boss, one who did things differently. In 2012, Xi Jinping became General Secretary of the Communist Party, and the following year, President of China.
凯特·莱恩博(Kate Linebaugh):人们对如何在中国政治阶层中晋升有一种期望,而且这通常不是一个快速的过程。你应该投入时间并逐级提升。秦在外交部的大部分职业生涯就是这样度过的。他曾在中国驻伦敦大使馆工作过,并曾在北京担任外交部发言人,并用有稿的谈话要点回答记者的问题。但后来发生的一件事,让秦走上了快车道。他找到了一份新工作和一位新老板,他的做法有所不同。 2012年,习近平成为中国共产党总书记,次年成为中国国家主席。

Lingling Wei: Xi Jinping is the most powerful, the most forceful Chinese leader in recent decades. Ever since he came to power in late 2012, Xi Jinping basically has embarked on this never-ending effort to centralize power into his own hands. Xi Jinping basically made himself the chairman of everything in China.
魏玲玲:习近平是近几十年来最有权力、最具影响力的中国领导人。自2012年底上台以来,习近平基本上就开始了永无休止的将权力集中到自己手中的努力。习近平基本上让自己成为了中国一切事务的主席。

Kate Linebaugh: Soon after Xi came to power, Qin landed a job that would put him in close proximity to Xi. In 2014, Qin became Xi's Chief of Protocol at the Foreign Ministry.
凯特·莱恩博:习近平上台后不久,秦就找到了一份工作,这使他与习近平关系密切。 2014年,秦出任习近平的外交部礼宾司司长。

Danny Russell: Protocol shouldn't be confused with which fork to use at dinner and whether the fish knife goes on the left or the right of the butter knife. It's organizing the movements of the leaders and the moving parts of a visit.
丹尼·拉塞尔(Danny Russell):协议不应与晚餐时使用哪把叉子以及鱼刀放在黄油刀的左侧还是右侧相混淆。它正在组织领导人的行动和访问的活动部分。

Kate Linebaugh: That's Danny Russell. He was a diplomat at the State Department during the Obama administration. And he worked with Qin a few times when Qin was chief of protocol. Like in 2015 when Qin accompanied Xi on his first official visit to the US. Do you remember any stories from Qin Gang at that time?
凯特·莱恩博:那是丹尼·拉塞尔。他在奥巴马政府期间担任国务院外交官。在秦担任礼宾长期间,他曾与秦合作过几次。就像2015年秦陪同习近平首次正式访问美国一样。你还记得秦刚当时的故事吗?

Danny Russell: I do have a recollection of Qin Gang and the Chinese team being really passionate and angst-ridden over the possibility that there could be a protest that would impinge on the eyeballs of Xi Jinping, of the leader. I think there was almost a sense of terror that if something as embarrassing and politically shameful as that were to occur, that they were going down with the ship.
丹尼·拉塞尔:我确实记得秦刚和中国团队对于可能发生的抗议活动非常热情和焦虑,这可能会引起领导人习近平的注意。我认为人们几乎有一种恐惧感,如果发生这样令人尴尬和政治上可耻的事情,他们就会与船一起沉没。

Kate Linebaugh: Wow. Another person familiar with the rough-and-tumble of official visits is former US diplomat, Rick Waters.
凯特·莱恩博:哇。另一位熟悉官方访问混乱的人是美国前外交官里克·沃特斯(Rick Waters)。

Rick Waters: These visits are traumatic for those of us who have to organize them. The US team rolls in heavy with a few dozen planes and you're carefully choreographed. Effort immediately falls apart at first contact with reality.
里克·沃特斯:这些访问对于我们这些必须组织访问的人来说是一种痛苦。美国队用几十架飞机密集地滚来滚去,你是经过精心编排的。一旦接触现实,努力就会立即崩溃。

Kate Linebaugh: Rick was working at the State Department when tensions with China were ratcheting up during the Trump administration. He helped organize President Trump's visit to Beijing in 2017. And there was one moment during that visit that stuck with him. It happened when Chinese security stopped a US military aid from entering a meeting room.
凯特·莱恩博(Kate Linebaugh):特朗普执政期间,与中国的紧张关系加剧时,里克正在国务院工作。他帮助组织了特朗普总统 2017 年的北京之行。那次访问期间有一个时刻让他印象深刻。事情发生在中国安全部门阻止美国军事援助进入会议室时。

Rick Waters: We were in the Great Hall of the People for the meeting with Xi Jinping, and the security details got into a giant fistfight right outside the meeting room.
里克·沃特斯:我们在人民大会堂与习近平会面,安保人员在会议室外发生了一场激烈的斗殴。

Kate Linebaugh: What? 凯特·莱恩博:什么?

Rick Waters: Yeah. At the time, there was a mid-level foreign ministry official named Qin Gang, and he and I were the only ones in the room. And we were trying to pull these people off of each other as they were in a full-blown brawl, 10 feet outside the meeting room where Xi and Trump were together.
里克·沃特斯:是的。当时有一个外交部中层官员,名叫秦刚,房间里只有我和他。当这些人在习近平和特朗普在一起的会议室外 10 英尺外发生全面争吵时,我们试图将他们拉开。

Kate Linebaugh: And on that visit, did you notice anything about how Qin handled that moment and the tensions between Trump and Xi at the time?
凯特·莱恩博:在那次访问中,您是否注意到秦如何处理那一刻以及当时特朗普和习近平之间的紧张关系?

Rick Waters: Well, he didn't manage the policy. He was often not in the innermost room when they were talking about policy either. But what I saw is that the parts of the system that organized visits, they had a certain deference to him. And I think it's because they knew that he was an up-and-comer in the system and someone to whom they needed to be responsive because he was clearly empowered by Xi's office to manage what was a very important event for them at the time.
里克·沃特斯:嗯,他没有管理这项政策。当他们谈论政策时,他也常常不在最里面的房间。但我看到的是,系统中组织访问的部分,他们对他有一定的尊重。我认为这是因为他们知道他是系统中的后起之秀,也是他们需要做出回应的人,因为习近平办公室明确授权他来管理当时对他们来说非常重要的事件。

Kate Linebaugh: Qin wasn't in the room where the big policy decisions were being made, not yet. But as Chief of Protocol, he earned Xi's trust. And with Xi's backing, he would be catapulted to the highest echelons of China's political system and on to the global stage. That's next. In 2021, Qin Gang arrived in Washington, DC to start a new job.
凯特·莱恩博(Kate Linebaugh):秦当时不在做出重大政策决定的房间里,目前还没有。但作为礼宾司长,他赢得了习近平的信任。在习近平的支持下,他将跻身中国政治体系的最高层并登上全球舞台。接下来就是了。 2021年,秦刚抵达华盛顿特区开始新的工作。

Qin Gang: It's a great honor for me to be Ambassador of the People's Republic of China to the United States of America.
秦刚:我很荣幸担任中华人民共和国驻美利坚合众国大使。

Kate Linebaugh: Standing between Chinese and American flags, Qin made his first remarks as China's new man in DC.
凯特·莱恩博(Kate Linebaugh):秦站在中国和美国国旗之间,作为中国新人在华盛顿首次发表讲话。

Qin Gang: I firmly believe that the door of China-U.S relations, which is already open, cannot and should not be closed. This is the trend of the world, the call of the times, and the view of the people.
秦刚:我坚信,中美关系的大门已经敞开,不能也不应该关闭。这是世界潮流、时代呼唤、人民心声。

Kate Linebaugh: For Qin, it was an important promotion. Just three years earlier, he'd been Chief of Protocol at the Foreign Ministry. Now he was Beijing's voice in Washington.
Kate Linebaugh:对于秦来说,这是一次重要的晋升。就在三年前,他还担任外交部礼宾处处长。现在他是北京在华盛顿的代言人。

Lingling Wei: That appointment in 2021 was quite a surprise decision.
魏玲玲:2021 年的任命是一个相当意外的决定。

Kate Linebaugh: That's our colleague Lingling again.
Kate Linebaugh:又是我们的同事 Lingling。

Lingling Wei: Qin Gang didn't have much of a US experience and the thinking was, based on officials familiar with the matter, the reason why Xi Jinping picked him for such an important job was mostly because Xi Jinping really trusted him. He believed that Qin Gang would be able to present China's story well in Washington.
魏玲玲:秦刚没有太多美国经历,据知情官员透露,习近平之所以选择他担任如此重要的职务,主要是因为习近平确实信任他。他相信秦刚能够在华盛顿讲好中国故事。

Kate Linebaugh: But to present that story, Qin Gang had to build relationships in DC, and that was tough going.
凯特·莱恩博:但是为了讲述这个故事,秦刚必须在华盛顿建立关系,这很艰难。

Danny Russell: He was very unpopular among the policy people and even quite a few of the business leaders.
丹尼·拉塞尔:他在政策人士甚至不少商界领袖中非常不受欢迎。

Kate Linebaugh: Here's Danny, one of the former diplomats we heard from earlier.
凯特·莱恩博:这是丹尼,我们之前听说过的一位前外交官。

Danny Russell: I think they found him arrogant, even impolite, and at other times, highly formulaic. I don't know how he was dealing with his in-government counterparts, in part because they refused to meet with him for the better part of a year while he was in Washington. That's another story.
丹尼·拉塞尔:我认为他们发现他傲慢,甚至不礼貌,有时还非常公式化。我不知道他是如何与政府内同行打交道的,部分原因是他在华盛顿期间,他们在一年的大部分时间里拒绝与他会面。那是另一个故事了。

Kate Linebaugh: What? Why did they refuse to meet with him?
凯特·莱恩博:什么?他们为什么拒绝与他见面?

Danny Russell: I may be putting it a little bit strongly, but he arrived during a very chilly moment in US-China relations.
丹尼·拉塞尔:我的说法可能有点强硬,但他是在美中关系非常寒冷的时刻到来的。

Kate Linebaugh: At that time, President Biden had recently come into the White House. But the change in administration didn't change much about the US-China relationship. The two countries were still at odds over a long list of issues, Taiwan, trade, espionage, and the disputes were getting personal.
凯特·莱恩博:当时,拜登总统刚刚入主白宫。但政府更迭并没有给美中关系带来太大变化。两国在台湾、贸易、间谍活动等一系列问题上仍存在分歧,而且争端日益私人化。

Danny Russell: The new US ambassador to China, Nicholas Burns, was getting beastly treatment by the Chinese who just shut him out mercilessly. I think in some circles there was certainly a view that said, "You know what? Let's give them a taste of their own medicine."
丹尼·拉塞尔:新任美国驻华大使尼古拉斯·伯恩斯受到中国人的野蛮对待,中国人无情地将他拒之门外。我认为在某些圈子里肯定有一种观点说,“你知道吗?让我们让他们尝尝自己的药吧。”

Kate Linebaugh: A little quid pro quo.
凯特·莱恩博:一点交换条件。

Danny Russell: Try a little quid pro quo. Here's some reciprocity for you, buddy.
丹尼·拉塞尔:尝试一点交换条件。这是给你的一些互惠,伙计。

Kate Linebaugh: A State Department spokesperson said Ambassador Burns has had good access to Chinese officials during his tenure. But that there have been times when Chinese officials have refused to meet with him. Qin was trying to find his footing in the DC scene. But even amongst his colleagues, Qin wasn't always popular.
凯特·莱恩博:国务院发言人表示,伯恩斯大使在任职期间与中国官员有良好的接触。但中国官员有时拒绝与他会面。秦试图在 DC 领域找到自己的立足点。但即使在他的同事中,秦也并不总是很受欢迎。

Lingling Wei: He was known as a very strict manager, very hands-on manager. He would publicly scold an underling for very little mistakes. So that kind of style earned him some resentment from others within the foreign ministry. And it was also well known that he has had some women issues.
魏玲玲:他被认为是一位非常严格、亲力亲为的经理。他会公开斥责下属,哪怕是很小的错误。因此,这种作风引起了外交部其他人的不满。众所周知,他有一些女性问题。

Kate Linebaugh: Qin was married and he had a son. But according to Lingling's sources, Qin also had affairs.
凯特·莱恩博:秦已婚并育有一个儿子。但根据灵灵的消息,秦也有外遇。

Lingling Wei: That's what we have heard from officials back in China. But, at least back then, as long as you had the top leader's trust, all those issues were negligible. It didn't matter. You had women issues or other issues, as long as you had the top leader's trust, you're fine.
魏玲玲:这是我们从中国官员那里听到的。但至少在当时,只要得到了最高领导的信任,所有这些问题都可以忽略不计。没关系。你有女性问题或者其他问题,只要你得到最高领导的信任就可以了。

Kate Linebaugh: Qin did have Xi's trust. So much so that at the end of 2022, less than two years into Qin's ambassadorship, Xi handed him another promotion, Foreign Minister, one of China's most important political posts.
凯特·莱恩博:秦确实得到了习近平的信任。以至于在 2022 年底,即秦出任大使不到两年,习近平再次晋升为外交部长,这是中国最重要的政治职位之一。

Lingling Wei: And this is a fun part. Most of the time when he was in DC, he couldn't even get meetings with Biden officials. So after the promotion, people were calling him and trying to meet with him.
Lingling Wei:这是一个有趣的部分。当他在华盛顿的大部分时间里,他甚至无法与拜登官员会面。因此,晋升后,人们给他打电话,试图与他见面。

Kate Linebaugh: His lonely Washington life was suddenly transformed with people returning his phone calls.
凯特·莱恩鲍(Kate Linebaugh):随着人们回他的电话,他孤独的华盛顿生活突然发生了变化。

Lingling Wei: Exactly, exactly.
魏玲玲:对对对。

Danny Russell: That appointment was truly mind-boggling to me. I was stunned, and I think many of my friends and counterparts in the Chinese foreign ministry were similarly surprised. This was a case where Xi Jinping just reached into the system and plucked a loyal aid, some might say a toady, not out of obscurity, but certainly disrupted the natural order, the protocol order in terms of age and service, seniority.
丹尼·拉塞尔:那个任命对我来说确实令人难以置信。我很震惊,我想我的很多朋友和中国外交部的同行也同样感到惊讶。在这个例子中,习近平刚刚进入了体制,就拉来了一个忠诚的援助者,有些人可能会说是一个阿谀奉承者,不是出于默默无闻,但肯定扰乱了自然秩序,扰乱了年龄、服务、资历方面的礼仪秩序。

Kate Linebaugh: In fact, Lingling's reporting shows Qin wasn't the foreign ministry's first pick for the job. He wasn't even their second or third pick.
凯特·莱恩博:事实上,玲玲的报道表明秦并不是外交部的首选人选。他甚至不是他们的第二或第三顺位。

Lingling Wei: Based on reporting, the foreign policy establishment in China recommended three names to the top leader, Xi Jinping, who should be the next foreign minister. Qin Gang wasn't one of them. So in the end, it was really Xi Jinping himself who decided to name him the foreign minister. So Xi gave him the job.
魏玲玲:据报道,中国外交政策机构向最高领导人习近平推荐了三名候选人,他将成为下一任外交部长。秦刚不是其中之一。所以最终还是习近平亲自决定任命他为外交部长。于是习近平给了他这份工作。

Kate Linebaugh: Then a few months later, Xi tacked on yet another fancy title. He made Qin not just Foreign Minister, but State Counselor, basically elevating Qin to a senior position in his cabinet. Qin's predecessor had waited five years before getting that promotion.
凯特·莱恩博:几个月后,习近平又加上了另一个奇特的头衔。他不仅任命秦国为外交部长,还任命为国务委员,基本上将秦国提升到了内阁中的高级职位。秦的前任等了五年才获得晋升。

Danny Russell: That was really extraordinary.
丹尼·拉塞尔:那真是太棒了。

Kate Linebaugh: What did that promotion say to you?
凯特·莱恩博:这次晋升对你来说意味着什么?

Danny Russell: What it told me is that China has now entered an imperial era in which the leader, call him General Secretary, call him President, call him Emperor, doesn't really matter. The singular leader now makes all of these personnel decisions, makes all decisions. So I think I took it much less as a story about Qin Gang and much more as a revelation about Xi Jinping.
丹尼·拉塞尔:它告诉我的是,中国现在已经进入了一个帝国时代,在这个时代,领导人,称他为总书记,称他为总统,称他为皇帝,并不重要。现在,所有这些人事决策都是由单一领导者做出的。所以我认为我不太把它当作一个关于秦刚的故事,而更多地把它当作一个关于习近平的启示。

Kate Linebaugh: So then it's July of last year, Qin's been Foreign Minister for about half a year, and people start to notice that he's gone missing. What happens from there?
凯特·莱恩博:去年七月,秦担任外交部长大约半年了,人们开始注意到他失踪了。从那里会发生什么?

Lingling Wei: Initially, the foreign ministry was very silent on questions about his whereabouts. Then one day in July, the spokesperson at the foreign ministry basically said he was absent for, quote unquote, health reasons.
魏玲玲:最初,外交部对他的下落保持沉默。然后七月的一天,外交部发言人基本上说他缺席是因为健康原因。

Kate Linebaugh: What did you think of that?
凯特·莱恩博:你对此有何看法?

Lingling Wei: In Chinese system, health reasons are often cited for officials who have basically fallen out favor or gotten into some kind of trouble. So the health reason explanations to me did sound like a cover for something else, something more problematic.
魏玲玲:在中国的体制中,对于那些基本上失宠或陷入某种麻烦的官员来说,经常会提到健康原因。因此,对我来说,健康原因的解释听起来确实像是在掩盖其他事情,一些更有问题的事情。

Kate Linebaugh: And then in September of last year, Lingling got a scoop. She reported that the Chinese government had conducted an investigation into Qin and senior Chinese officials were briefed on it.
Kate Linebaugh:去年 9 月,Lingling 得到了独家新闻。她报告说,中国政府已对秦进行了调查,并向中国高级官员通报了相关情况。

Lingling Wei: Those high ranking officials were told that Qin's removal from the Foreign Minister job was due to, quote, lifestyle issues, which basically is a common party euphemism for sexual misconduct. They were specifically told that he had a affair while serving as a Chinese ambassador to the United States.
魏玲玲:那些高级官员被告知,秦被免去外交部长职务是因为生活方式问题,这基本上是党内对性行为不端的常见委婉说法。他们被特别告知,他在担任中国驻美国大使期间有外遇。

Kate Linebaugh: And did that explanation make sense to you?
凯特·莱恩博:这个解释对你来说有意义吗?

Lingling Wei: It didn't make a lot of sense to me because high ranking officials in China, they have affairs all the time. It's never the reason why someone would get into serious trouble like this. There must have been something else.
魏玲玲:这对我来说没有多大意义,因为中国的高级官员总是有外遇。这绝不是某人会陷入这样严重麻烦的原因。一定还有其他事情。

Kate Linebaugh: Something else. When Lingling published her story about Qin's investigation last year, she didn't know what that something else was.
凯特·莱恩博:还有别的事。当玲玲去年发表有关秦调查的报道时,她不知道那是什么。

Lingling Wei: It was such a difficult story to report out, given the fact that China doesn't have any kind of transparency or accountability to speak of.
魏玲玲:鉴于中国没有任何透明度或问责制可言,这是一个很难报道的故事。

Kate Linebaugh: Chinese politics are steeped in secrecy. Even people within the Chinese government might only know parts of Qin's story, the parts the leadership wanted them to know. But Lingling kept digging. And she did have one thread to pull on. According to our sources, senior Chinese officials were told that Qin had been investigated because of an affair, but not just any affair. They were told that this affair could have compromised China's national security.
凯特·莱恩博(Kate Linebaugh):中国政治高度保密。即使是中国政府内部的人也可能只知道秦的故事的一部分,领导层希望他们知道的部分。但玲玲继续挖掘。她确实有一根线可以拉。据我们的消息来源称,中国高级官员被告知,秦因一桩婚外情而受到调查,但不仅仅是任何婚外情。他们被告知这件事可能会损害中国的国家安全。

Lingling Wei: My ears perked up. It was very intriguing. What could have affair possibly compromised China's national security? Turns out it all had to do with this one woman, the woman he had affair with. Her name is Fu Xiaotian.
魏玲玲:我的耳朵竖了起来。这非常有趣。什么事件可能危害中国的国家安全?原来这一切都与这个女人有关,就是那个与他有染的女人。她叫傅小天。

Kate Linebaugh: Fu Xiaotian, a rising star in her own profession with friends in high places who would face a downfall just as mysterious as Qin Gang's. That's next time on The Missing Minister. Listen to episodes two and three now. They're already in your feed. The Missing Minister is part of the Journal, which is a co-production of Spotify and The Wall Street Journal. I'm your host, Kate Linebaugh. This series was produced by Annie Minoff and Alan Rodriguez Espinosa. It was reported by Maria Byrne and Lingling Wei. It was edited by Maria Byrne. Mary Mathis is our fact-checker. Sound design and mixing by Griffin Tanner. Music direction by Nathan Singapok. Music in this episode by Nathan Singapok and Blue Dot Sessions. Our theme music is by So Wiley and remixed by Nathan Singapok. Special thanks to Katherine Brewer, Eleanor Cherney, Laura Morris, Philana Patterson, Sarah Platt, Heather Rogers, and Aruna Vishwanatha. Thanks for listening.
凯特·莱恩博(Kate Linebaugh):傅小天,她所在行业的后起之秀,她的朋友身居高位,但她也将面临像秦刚一样神秘的垮台。那是下一次的《失踪的部长》。现在听第二集和第三集。它们已经在您的 Feed 中了。 《失踪的部长》是《华尔街日报》的一部分,由 Spotify 和《华尔街日报》联合制作。我是主持人凯特·莱恩博。该剧由安妮·米诺夫和艾伦·罗德里格斯·埃斯皮诺萨制作。玛丽亚·伯恩和玲玲魏报道了这一消息。它由玛丽亚·伯恩编辑。玛丽·马西斯是我们的事实核查员。声音设计和混音由 Griffin Tanner 完成。音乐指导为 Nathan Singapok。本集的音乐由 Nathan Singapok 和 Blue Dot Sessions 创作。我们的主题音乐由 So Wiley 创作,并由 Nathan Singapok 重新混音。特别感谢凯瑟琳·布鲁尔、埃莉诺·切尔尼、劳拉·莫里斯、菲拉娜·帕特森、莎拉·普拉特、希瑟·罗杰斯和阿鲁纳·维什瓦纳塔。感谢您的聆听。

Looking for more episodes? Find them wherever you listen to podcasts.
寻找更多剧集?无论您在何处收听播客,都可以找到它们。

HOSTED BY 由主办

Co-host of The Journal., The Wall Street Journal
《华尔街日报》联合主持人

Kate Linebaugh is the co-host of The Journal. She has worked at The Wall Street Journal for 15 years, most recently as the deputy U.S. news coverage chief. Kate started at the Journal in Hong Kong, stopping in Detroit and coming to New York in 2011. As a reporter, she covered everything from post-9/11 Afghanistan to the 2004 Asian tsunami, from Toyota's sudden acceleration recall to General Electric. She holds a bachelor degree from the University of Michigan in Ann Arbor and went back to campus in 2007 for a Knight-Wallace fellowship.

Ryan Knutson

Co-host and News Editor, The Journal Podcast, The Wall Street Journal
《华尔街日报》杂志播客联合主持人兼新闻编辑

Ryan Knutson is the co-host of The Journal, The Wall Street Journal’s flagship daily podcast.

He has worked at the Journal since 2013. Before joining the podcast, Ryan covered the wireless industry, and was responsible for a string of scoops including Verizon's $130 billion buyout of Vodafone's stake in their joint venture, Sprint and T-Mobile's never ending courtship, and a hack of the 911 emergency system that spread virally on Twitter. He also spent a year on the business side of Dow Jones, helping lead the company's strategic relations with tech companies like Apple and Google. Before WSJ, he reported for ProPublica, PBS Frontline and OPB, the NPR affiliate station in Portland, Ore. He grew up in Aloha, Ore. and graduated from the University of Oregon.

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